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Janos Abel's avatar

Free will is "... the core structure propping up systems that reward and punish, like religion and capitalism".

I believe that we have free will on the (maybe) superficial evidence that without it ethics, morality, empathy, etc., are meaningless.

But you argue that "...rejecting compatibilism and free will doesn’t make society fall apart; it builds a stronger foundation for understanding and shaping the behaviors we care about."

That is interesting, because I am more interested in the outcome of an action than in the causes that precipitated it.

So I want "... to come to terms with what Spinoza, Nietzsche and Schopenhauer... knew..." because I want the "... 'cosmic realism' of an enlightened Carl Sagan or Albert Einstein" to guide our efforts to change to a better world society.

Whether or not this desire is the outcome of determinism or free will is immaterial. What matters is that enough people share it to overcome 'the powers that be' who want to continue with society on its current trajectory.

Thanks, Galan, for tabling this issue.

Over to you... how about those ideas?

Stella Stillwell's avatar

Thanks, Janos. I share your instrumentalist leanings, we should do what’s going to lead to wellbeing. That’s a big topic — what constitutes wellbeing. I have some thoughts on that and for me, having less cognitive dissonance and being aware of how things work (like Spinoza suggests) is a critical part of wellbeing, for me anyway.

Even if we needed a belief in free will to undergird meaning, morality, etc., that doesn’t make it any less of an illusion, and from a purely philosophical rigor standpoint I see some inherent value in just the metaphysical observation alone. But I also think we don’t need belief in free will to have the kind of societal wellbeing we’re after. I strongly feel it gets in the way, which is why I focus on it. Please check out the short but illuminating video by Gregg Caruso that I linked to in my post and please get back to me after you watch.

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